what do you think of gay/bisexual/transgender ppl?

[rhein]

does any of you realise that those ppl (gay/bisexual and transgender ppl) are now more open in expressing themselves? i see them more often now, in malls, streets.
and tv shows also exposed them more openly. there are some advertisement models, dancers, comedians who are exposed on tv mainly about their transgender or sexual deviation.

those glow gets lots of response. there are lots of ppl think of them as a good for nothing ppl. they despise and condemn them. some even say that those ppl will go straight to hell. to some extent, some radical ppl even beat them up b/coz they're fed up with those ppl shamelessness in expressing themselves.

so what do you think of this?

[chateaubriand]

it's totally unfair to treat them like the scums of the earth coz they're still human beings and have the right to choose who and what they want to be. atleast that's what i think....

[pippichan]

Personally, I don't have problem with those kind of people. They just live their lives on what they believe, so what's wrong with that?! In fact, I think I must give them credit because they aren't afraid to show their true feelings. Hey, you must admit that it's kinda difficult to be true, even to yourself, isn't it?!

Now, about those who despise or even act hostile to gay/bisexual/transgender people, I think it's they who have problem. They think they're better, purer than anyone else. They actually believe they're gonna go to heaven!? Oh, please! Just who do they think they are - judging anyone else but never wanna look their own flaws. This kind of people is the worst and always makes me sick!

After all, when it comes to love, it doesn't really matter with whom you're falling in. As long as you feel it's right, then it can't be wrong.

So, how about you, rhein?

[Teahouse Keeper]

At last! The Teahouse's first controversial topic!! I wondered when it was going to happen, what it was going to be and who was going to do it. Well, here it is finally

Glad to see you guys are pretty open.

Yeah, Chateaubriand, it's unfair to treat them like scum. Even if 2 guys are gay, as long as they love each other and are happy, I don't see why people should break them apart or despise them. It's a private thing and it's not like they murdered somebody.

Hahaha...yeah, Pippichan, I think gays/bisexuals/transgenders are brave to step out into the open. It must be very hard for them to silently endure it for years. It's only in recent years that the prejudice has lifted somewhat. Even so, it doesn't mean that they are accepted.

There are a lot of debates, including the issue of child adoption and marriage between gays. Unless society changes, I think it'd be tough for a child whose parents are gay.

Come to think, I saw 2 girls on a crowded bus the other day. One of them sat down while her friend (who looked boyish) stood beside her because there was no space. Everything was ok, until they started behaving like a boy-girl couple. People started noticing. And then, the standing girl spoke. Her voice was absolutely a girl's That's when everyone stared with huge, hostile eyes.

Well, we got off the bus at the same stop and they suddenly stopped holding hands etc. Looked like 2 ordinary school girls. Hahaha...I got the feeling that they were having fun on the bus, torturing their viewers

[rhein]

3 replies and only 1 vote? why didn't the two of you vote? i don't know which one of you didn't vote.

ehm, i vote for just ok w/ them but actually i'd rather go w/ symphatizing them. sorry, misclick it. ;D
teahouse keeper, can you help fix it?

like all three of you, i agree that it's totally unfair to treat them ill. it's their lives, their right, their choice. like teahouse keeper said, they don't murder anyone anyway.

but i symphatize them coz i know how hard it is for them. lots of ppl will treat them ill, perhaps including their family. i've heard some of them are banished by their own family who feels ashamed of them. lots of them must feel scared, hurt, lonely, etc. and i symphatize more to those who doesn't have the courage. they must suffer more, hiding their truth inside themselves, acting like 'normal ppl' when their aching inside. lying to yourselves is a very hard and hurting thing to do, ay? what's normal anyway? everyone is special, ay?

and i admire their courage to be true to themselves. some ppl don't even have the courage to express themselves to avoid ppl's judgement.

[pippichan]

Hahaha! It's me! I didn't vote. Ok, I'll vote later, don't be angry with me! ;D

Hm... if only they think they live for their own sake and happiness, they don't have to pretend. Yeah, society is cruel and I think the best way to deal with them is just saying, "tomato you!" and move on. Maybe you think it's easy for me to say it because I'm not gay/bisexual/transgender ppl. But even if I was, I'd definitely do that.

You know, sometimes ignorance is the best way to survive this awful world.

[rhein]

yeah, you're right! ignorance is the best way to deal w/ annoying, selfish ppl who doesn't have common sense.
i do that too to those kind of ppl. i just ignore them.

btw, just to draw us all nearer here, what abt a little honesty here?

are you gay or bisexual or transgender or straight?

[pippichan]

Here you can't get 100% honest answer, rhein. How can you be sure?

What am I? What do you think I am?

[rhein]

oh, why not? c'mon.
what do you have to loose? we're all friends here. and we're open minded ppl. no one will judge you here.

i'll even be honest too here - even there're some stalking nosy ppl behind my back lurking. *grumble abt the nosy ppl*

[iwakami]

I have a couple homosexual friends, and one bisexual friend at school. (the gays are in diff. states)

I personally am against BEING gay, but not the people who are gay...if that makes sense. To me, being gay is wrong, I do not think it should happen. And gay marriage is not the best either.
But because someone is gay, does not mean that they are bad people. My friend who is about my age says he prayed for a long time to not be gay...and nothing changed. He finally admitted that he was not straight.


When I think about it..........I do not understand how exactly someone can be gay. Anyone can have an attraction to any gender.......I am guessing because there are many beautiful people out in the world.

Is it a feeling of love that acctually will have someone partner with someone of the same sex? B/c I know many poeple want a feeling of security in their lives, and it could just so happen that when a person finds some who they feel understands things (b/c some people are depressed or something. Do not feel happy) they look for someone of that divine characteristic, and when they do...they feel happy, and it wont matter if that person is the same gender......they are happy.

Then again it may be just a physical attraction. It could be a brain chemical thing or some such like that,...maybe not, no one knows. But there is obviously a difference in the type of bady a girl and a guy have. Maybe someone just prefers one to the other.
My friend is a guy, and he is straight, he is also perfectly fine with saying his opinion on how another guy looks. Like if he thinks that a guy may be pretty okay looking or not, sure his perception is diff. than a girls, and he would probably say a more girly and handsome guys looks better than a guy with a beer belly, but thats fine.

Sorry I write so much.....and I dont exactly know what I am ytalking about myself. But it would be kinda interesting if were to have a homosexual here and to get their thoughts...answer some questions if they were able to.

[rhein]

yeah, i think it'll be nice to have them replying this thread and tell us more abt it.

as for me, as far as i know, it's abt sexual desire and preference. a gay man just doesn't feel like kissing a girl, he just prefers kissing a man. he's not sexually attracted to a girl no matter how beautiful she is. that's more or less the best way to say it. or is there a better way to say it? anyone has better understanding abt it?

[Teahouse Keeper]

Hahahaha....well, being gay is not something that a person chooses to be. It has to do with the genes. That's not something that a person can change A lot of research has been done on the issue and there's a lot to read. Also, male homosexuality has been around for ages in China, Rome, Japan....

There was a same topic in another forum where everybody argued over it. They brought in religion, science and everything else....It was a very serious debate and everyone had very strong views

One gay guy said he's not turned on by any woman regardless of how beautiful or sexy she is. He said he went to a pub where a woman did a very hot dance in front of him and he didn't feel anything.....he said that in fact, he wanted to laugh.

Personally, I don't think there's any need for gay people to torture themselves by forcing themselves to go straight. I mean life is short. Why make themselves miserable because of their sexual orientation. Also, I believe true love can be found among gay people as well. Some straight people don't even have that kind of happiness in their romantic relationships or marriages. If a gay person manages to find a loved one, I'll send my congratulations to the couple

Well, Iwakami, it's nice that you're not prejudiced against your friends

Mm....Rhein, I can't change the vote thing. But it's ok I guess. Will knowing our sexual orientation draw us closer?

Well, I don't know whether I'm gay, straight or bisexual. I get turned on by all 3

[pippichan]

Can someone be said gay or bisexual if they just think about others in the same sex sexually? Or they must 'do' it first then they're said to be gay or bisexual?

[arashikarasu]

*looks around*

Yay yaoi *raises a hand*

...hehehe....lol

[TheCubedOne]

I really don't think a person's sexual orientation is the be all end all of a person, or how that person should be viewed. It is partially a defining factor yes, but just that...only a part of the whole, a jigsaw piece if you will.

After all, do we, as society in general, not wear different hats and masks on various occasions? I really don't see how wether a person is gay, straight or bi(metro?)-sexual, determines their very nature of good, bad, right or wrong. It is however an unfortunate bias that somewhere along the way became a sociological undercurrent.

I do however understand the reasons behind society's views on the subject, disagree as I might. Like any serious issue, it is something that needs to be viewed from both sides, and hard not to shrug off and say,"that's just the way it is."

Nothing changes with an attitude of complacence like that. Going through life just ignoring the bad things and looking through rose-tinted glasses serves only to hinder one's growth as an individual. Ignorance is not always bliss, and can lead to a very sheltered and illusory world view.

However, I don't think this neccessarily applies to anyone here on this board, given the very nature of the various multi-cultural themes. That alone is one route to a centered and well-rounded personality.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

[pippichan]

When I said that ignorance sometimes is the best way to survive this awful world, I meant ignorance for what other people's sayings about me as an individual. I know that it doesn't apply to every person but sure it applies the best for me. I can't live my life, minding what others may think of me everytime I make an action or speak my mind or express my feeling. Maybe because of that I live in an illusion world of mine. But being burdened by other people's judgements all the time is worse, I think.

[iwakami]

Yeah, there are many many thoughts on this. And everyone will never entirely agree upon these things.

My friend was telling me that he did not chose, and he did not wish to be gay eiher. But he had finally accepted it a few months ago. He says now that he truely beleives he cant change the way he feels and that he just wishes that he will be able to find someone to live his life with.

I totaly respect that, because we all deserve that.

His mother was making a sort of fun of it. She asked him in front of his dad while on the way from school to point out a girl that he thought was hot. He just pointed out a girl with big breasts and a butt. He did think she was hot in some way. But.......he said that it is different, he thinks a girl can be hot....but it there is no actual sexual attraction.

I am guessing that it is a sexual preference, (maybe not a concious thing, but that they enjoy the male or female body to the other). If I am able to ask one of my friends later, I might be able to ask him about it a little bit to get his own thoughts of it. But then again I would not want to have him feel uncomfortable. (shall I ask in a diff forum to where I know there will be those who are homosexual to get their thoughts?)

[pippichan]

Hm... I think your friend's mom shouldn't make fun of it. It'd make it harder for him. I think she should try to understand his own son's feeling, respect his decision and support him. Bad or good, he's still her son.

[rhein]

yes, family should stay together no matter what. one phrase that i like most abt family is : blood is thicker than water. so whatever that happens, she should understand and support her son. he's her flesh and blood. nothing can change that.

a person is a gay or bisexual if he prefers so, not if he has done so. coz what abt an old gay who has never had sex? couldn't we define his preference? when i say preference, i meant a very strong desire. you know, a girl may like to see or admire another hot girl. it's still straight. but if she feels more than that, like feeling like having sex w/ the hot girl, she's a lesbian then.

btw, for me, sometimes ignorance is the best way. it might leads to a self centered personality and illusive, but sometimes it's better, especially when it comes to some ppl whom i can't talk to coz they don't have common sense at all. those are the ppl whom you'll find very difficult to deal w/. when nothing can be done, sometimes ignorance is the best way to avoid war.

o... teahouse keeper, you're into all three of them? are you joking? so you're into boys and girls and transgender ppl? darn it! you're greedy! bisexual then?

i think knowing it will draw us nearer as it will make us more open to one another here. as we're more open we'll feel more comfortable and at home here.

[Shoe]

I don't mind them. Everyone has a right to do what they want to do.. right? Besides, they are human beings, just like us. I see nothing wrong with them.

[rhein]

well, seems all of us here feels ok w/ them. but a thought crosses my mind. if those ppl are a stranger or have no relation w/ us, we all feel ok. but what if it's someone very close to us?

lets make this more interesting! say, what if a beautiful gal that you've been dating for a few months turns out to be a transgender person? and you know it only after you really like her? everything abt her is right. there's this problem only. would you content? would you still love her? what would you do?

and as i think this question is more for guys, - i've never known a transgender from female to male. there's no surgery for that yet, ay? - so i'll make another question for both.
under the same condition, what if the guy or gal that you've been dating turns out to be bisexual or worse, a gay or lesbian who just wanna try to hide their true identity by dating you? what would you do?

;D

[pippichan]

Crucify my love
If my love is blind
Crucify my love
If it sets me free
Never know never trust
"That love should see a color"
Crucify my love
If it should be that way

(Crucify My Love by Yoshiki of X Japan)

[Teahouse Keeper]

Heeheehee....found a very good definition for "transgender":
web4health.info/en/answers/sex-gender-what.htm

Ah, Iwakami, being gay is actually a genetic thing. Your friend can blame his parents actually His mom has no right laughing at him because half of his genes came from her (the other half came from his dad). Due to the shuffling of genes given by his parents, your friend ended up with a gay sexual orientation.

He's lucky to have you as a friend, Iwakami. It's great you support and believe in him. Well, I think if you're curious, you can always ask your gay friends. I'm sure they won't mind since they know you. Or, you can visit those forums and ask for opinions there. Or, if you want the facts, you can always read up at the library

Mm...Pippichan, I think a person doesn't have to actually do it to be gay or bisexual. It's based on sexual attraction. So, a man is gay if he's sexually attracted to another man, even without actually having sex.

Yeah guys, sometimes, it's easier to just ignore what others say, but it can be very hard, especially if it's your family that disapproves. Also, society can put a lot of pressure on individuals who are different.

Hahahaha....Rhein, I think transgender people are actually straight. They feel that they are in the wrong body. So, a man who believes he is a woman, will do the things a woman usually does, including falling in love with a man. Because he believes that he is a woman falling for a man, it's a straight relationship. For gays, it's different because they don't feel that they are in the wrong body. They know their gender and yet are sexually attracted to the same sex.

Mmm....straight, gay or bisexual. I've to be sexually aroused to qualify for the 3 categories, right? Well, let's see....I get aroused thinking of a woman doing it to me. The same thing happens when I think of a man doing it to me. I also get aroused thinking of doing a woman or a man. I get aroused when a woman is doing a woman, or a man is doing a man, or a man doing a woman.....

Well? What do you think, doctor Rhein?

Hahaha....Rhein, interesting questions you've got there Mm....actually there's surgery for transgender females. A few cases make it to the newspapers sometimes. Also, I saw a documentary where a girl wanted to be a boy and went for hormones injection--within a few months, she started growing body hair, her muscle mass increased so she could run faster and even aspects of her brain functions changed. It was pretty amazing.

Mm...Rhein, your questions are for straight people right? I'm into all 3 categories But ok, let's just say I'm straight....

For your second question.....you mean what if a gay or bisexual doesn't really like me but is just using me to hide his/her true sexual orientation? If this is the case, then we can't force the relationship to continue. First off, I want to know why this person lied to me and used me. If he/she has good reasons, then I understand and we can still be friends.

For your first question....it's harder. The girl I've been dating and have fallen in love with, is actually a man....or used to be a man. But everything about her is perfect. Can I still love her? Well, that's really complex, Rhein. I don't know. I guess if I really loved her, nothing else should matter. But if I'm really straight, then it bothers me.

[pippichan]

It seems to me if you love someone, you see him/her as a person only, without his/her various attributes. And to really love someone means you can accept his/her strengths and weaknesses (differences also). If you find a shocking fact about your loved one and that makes you retreat, then you don't really love him/her. Love's supposed to surpass everything, right?

But, hey, that's my idea of love. As for me, personally, I don't know. *shrugging ignorantly* I don't believe in love.

[Teahouse Keeper]

You don't believe in love?? Mmm.....Are you in fact saying that you haven't had someone love you before? (By "love", I mean romantic love rather than sibling love or friendship or other kinds of love).

Hahaha....to hear you say you don't believe in love.....I was really surprised because you seem like a loving sort of person, even though you think of money all the time

If you don't believe in love, then I am incapable of love. My heart is closed to the sort of love that couples all over the world celebrate. I feel that both of us are really sad people. You, who don't believe in love and me, who is incapable of love.

But I believe love exists between couples who truly love each other. Love exists and those who experience the joys of it are truly fortunate.

[pippichan]

Boy, it's gonna be a love thread! *shaking head* Why should I mention it earlier!?

Btw, if I want to, I can have romantic relationships since years ago. The problem is in me, I think. I can't trust people enough and I won't let those who's supposed to love me change me. Why should I change according to their will? If they really love me, shouldn't they be willing to accept me just the way I am?!

Yeah, I guess we're sad people, teahouse keeper!

A loving sort of person?! Me?! I never heard someone call me that. Hating, troubling, annoying; Yes. But loving? Never! ;D

I never understand why people always treat love as a glorious thing. In reality, as time passes by, love fades , even dies. So, what's the point of people's strunggling so hard for love?

[iwakami]

Keeper, I would say you are the typical male. It is just the way most men are to be arroused by any gender.


I forgot who asked the question........
It was if I were dating someone who was gay lesbian whatever and they were just dating me to cover it up.......well, I would be kinda sad......I dont think I would date this person unless I liked them. its hard to say much at all unless it is happened or happening at the present moment.

But I think that I would be able to reason with this person, talk with them, and still be friends and all. I suposse I would encourage them to find someone that they feel confortable and love to be in a relatiohsip with.

[rhein]

it was me, iwakami.
well, yeah, pippie's right. she's loving?!
no offense, pi, coz me neither.

yeah, teahouse keeper, but you have a very obvious preference. you're always aroused especially by yuki eiri, ay? ;D

well, talking abt love. though i'm in a relationship now, to be honest, i don't really believe in love myself. it's so great at first, but eventually the sparkle will ceased. then it's the matter of our willingness to stay together or not. though i must admit, a relationship can make our heart warm. but it can also break your heart. like darren hayes said, if we put our emotion in it, as we analyse it there is only disappointment.

for the question, yeah, in reality, it'll be very hard. it's hard to break a relationship. there's kind of a reluctant feeling to throw it away especially when there has been some beautiful moments between us. personally, if it befalls on me, i would probably ask him what he actually wants. if i see even the slightest reluctancy of him towards the relatioship, i would probably quietly bid him goodbye. i won't say goodbye to him verbally, it'd be too painful. i'd be more likely to do it by letter or sms then leave for good or at least till my wounded heart healed and i can regard him as a friend. in this case, i won't blame him coz i'll pity her but i'm sure i'll be hurt.

as for the transgender issues... i don't know there's a surgery to turn a woman into a man. can she be a 'real' man then? got cock too? the question applies for both then. well, lets imagine... gosh! i can't imagine how shocked i would be. ;D and i'm so damn straight. i don't know. err... maybe i'll be able to accept him. maybe not. but it will surely change a great deal of my opinion and perception towards him. but i think the odd will be more to me unable to accept it. it's too shocking. unless, there's something happen that makes me more liberal to accept it. in some cases i'm still so old fashion. but don't get me wrong, i won't judge him, nor despise him. it's ok, it's just that it's hard for me to be w/ a man who used to be a woman. i'll be thinking of kissing a gal when i kiss him, and it's a big problem for me. i'm just not that kind of person, i'm just too straight. though sometimes i wanna be man too. seems to me men are more free than women. guess my love ain't strong enough to conquer it, huh? *shrug*

[Teahouse Keeper]

Arghh....Pippichan, you break my heart. Love fades and even dies??! Ah....if that's the case, then it's not love at all. It's simply lust or desire that doesn't last long.

Yeah, love is sometimes a compromise. But it's not about changing each other and not about forcing each other to change. I know some people do that....they force their boyfriend/girlfriend to change hair colour, dressing etc. They try to manipulate and control. But love is not like that.

No, no, Rhein, Pippichan is a loving person. You just haven't seen that. Really, she is a loving person although somewhat selfish and wicked....and horrible....and....

But she's funny and cute and....naughty and heartless and....

Yeah Rhein, you noticed that too? I seem to have an obvious preference for Yuki Eiri I want him naked. Just thinking of him naked turns me on. He's so grumpy and sexy. His grumpiness is what's appealing and sexy....I would love to shut up his grumpiness with sex.

Ah....suicide....why talk about suicide? Dying doesn't solve anything. I mean there're people out there who are really dying from something and they wish to see just another day. But if you guys are healthy and living, then talking about dying is just not being fair to yourself and everybody.

Eh? Rhein, you don't believe in love even though you've a boyfriend? Sparks died off? Then what are you sticking to each other for? You can still be friends without being attached right? I don't know....I see some people are together just because everyone else is. Some people feel that if a person is not attached to someone by a certain age, then there must be something wrong with that person. That's just nuts.

Mmm....about that girl who transformed into a man...I don't know whether she'll go as far as to get a thingy. If it's possible, I think she probably will.

Yeah, it's actually pretty shocking to find that someone you've been loving used to be another gender. I guess a lot of straight people won't be able to take it and the relationship will just end. It's quite sad for the person who had changed gender. It's hard for the transgender person to satisfy both things....first, the gender change in order to be happy and second, to find someone who'll love him/her.

Hahaha...Iwakami, most men are aroused by any gender? Oh hey, have you talked with your friends about the gay issues that you wanted to know?

[pippichan]

Wow! Thanks for the praise, teahouse keeper! ;D But why did you say I'm wicked, horrible and heartless!? How can I be a loving person if I'm heartless??!!

Well, just face the fact, teahouse keeper. As time goes by, love really fades and dies. It happens to people around me, even my own parents, I think. Since I was little, I never sensed there's love between them. When I saw their wedding pictures, I knew that once there had been love between them but as years gone by .... where did it go? Well, there's one reason that changed everything, I guess. But I can't tell it here because it's way too personal for me.

And if love really can surpass everything, why there're so many people get divorced? Even if a couple stays together for a very long time and they look very happy and in love, can you tell for sure that it's how they really feel deep inside? Because sometimes people just pretend to love. So, which is worse? Separate or stay together while it's like a cold war there?

What's 'love' exactly?