Suikoden II

[pippichan]

Has someone ever played Suikoden II? Can you help me?

I've been stuck in North Window Village for long time now. I was about to slay Neclord but when I entered his castle, I couldn't find him anywhere. Where the heck does that annoying dracula hide?!

[Teahouse Keeper]

Have you conquered Neclord yet?

Ah...I don't play computer games, but tried to find some answers for you ;D I'm not sure which part of the game you're at, but I found a few bits of information regarding North Window Village and the castle. The castle has some paintings which you must arrange in some order before you can proceed further. For the correct arrangement of paintings, it's easier to ask somebody who has played the game.

For North Window Village, here's a website: faqs.ign.com/articles/383/383261p1.html

NORTH WINDOW VILLAGE

Watch the horrible scene, and you'll meet Neclord, the vampire. After a few conversations, there will be two choices : 1) I won't let you 2) Let's run away

I chose the second option, because you can't defeat him now. To defeat him, you need the Star Dragon Sword (located at the end of Cave of the wind). So, head there to take the sword. (Cave of the wind is north-west from south window).

[pippichan]

Yeah, I arrogantly fought Neclord and ... lost! ;D So, I grabbed The Star Dragon Sword. After possessed it, I thought it'd be easy to slay Neclord. But, that sly dracula hid somewhere! Hm....so I must arrange paintings, too. Well, I did arrange some things, but not paintings. They were sculptures. Guess I have to look for the paintings, now.

Hey, thanks for the link, teahouse keeper. I'll definitely check it out! ;D

[Teahouse Keeper]

So how's Neclord? Is he dead yet?

[pippichan]

Yatta! I've finally moved on! Thanks, teahouse keeper! You're the best!

Neclord? Of course he's dead; he's a vampire! ;D Hahaha, just joking! I know what you mean. When I finally found him, that cowardly vampire fled! Leaving a gigantic skeleton spider for me to deal with! Huh, of course I won! Neclord's abandoned castle then became mine. I own a castle now!

Further on, I also succeeded in killing Luca Blight - the evil prince (err...king) of Highland. But the bad news is my enemy now is Jowy, my best friend. Oh, I feel like Kira who has to fight against Athrun!

Tonight I'm gonna slay Neclord...again! I won't fail this time!

[Teahouse Keeper]

*shy* Aw, Ban-chan, glad I could help Wow, your life is so fabulously exciting!! Even got a castle! Ah, so complex. I won't even ask why your best friend has become your enemy. Who's Kira and Athrun?? Does Neclord always run away?

Well, I hope you get Neclord this time!!

[pippichan]

I've slayed Neclord! Wha ha ha ha! He's gone for good now! Oh, I'm sooo happy! ;D

Well, Jowy and I are best friends since our childhood. But after we got ourselves a rune, everything changed. I got Bright Shield Rune and Jowy got Black Sword Rune. And it's destined that whoever possess those two runes will be enemies. *sigh* I wish the story went a different way! I'm closer now to fight Jowy. Gosh, his rune is terrifying!

Oh, you don't watch Gundam Seed? Kira and Athrun are the main characters there.

Hehe...my life is exciting only as a character in rpg.

[Teahouse Keeper]

Uh, I'm supposed to watch Gundam Wing, then Gundam Seed, then Gundam Destiny...I'm so late...

Oh! You've slayed Neclord! At last!! ;D Any prize? Special increased powers? Unique treasure? Extra super bonus points?

Hey, you know the thing about the runes and Jowy...destined that those who have the 2 runes will be enemies? Well, it sounds like X!

Kamui and Fuuma are best friends until the day one of them chooses to become a dragon of Heaven or a dragon of Earth. Whichever one Kamui chooses, Fuuma will automatically be the other dragon and so they will become enemies until one of them dies. They cannot avoid choosing because avoiding is also choosing. Ultimately, both guys are forced to choose...so sad.

I keep wondering whether there's a solution to it...Surely, a solution exists.

Hahaha...an exciting rpg life is also wonderful!!

[pippichan]

Of course, I got increased power skill and lots of money! ;D And peace of mind, too!

Oh, what's the solution, then? Not fight? If I'm the author, I'll make them somehow not fight and be friends again.

X sounds interesting. Too bad I haven't seen it. The nearby rental shop sucks! And, I'm still stuck in Gundam Seed episode 14 and Gundam Seed manga volume 3. Uugh...

[Teahouse Keeper]

Ahahaha...as author, you've got to get your readers worked up over death, blood and tough choices So, it's got to be a really tragic tragedy Somebody must die...especially all the good and lovable characters. Viewers must cry.

Yeah, it's really hard to watch. Yeah, I hoped that somehow, Kamui and Fuuma would be friends again. But unfortunately, Fuuma is transformed by the choice that Kamui makes. Friendship is forgotten and there's only the instinct to kill.

Mm...I still haven't found a solution to it. Kamui tried not to choose, but it was still a choice. If he killed himself, I think it would still be the same. If Kamui killed Fuuma first, it's worse because that will definitely mean that he has chosen. So... Argh, you've really got to see it, Pippichan. It's really good and mind-twisting

Oh, you've got a rental shop nearby? It doesn't have X?? Hmm...X is rather well-known since it's by CLAMP.

So how's Gundam Seed?

[pippichan]

I think I enjoy writing tragic story but watching tragedy? Hm...I think I prefer happy ending!

I went to book rental, intending to look for the X manga. Turns out it's not available for rent anymore! And they only got 4 volumes. So, I begged, pled, persuaded, even forced them to rent the manga for me. Tired of my persistence, they're finally willing to search the manga. I was so happy (though I'd only read 4 volumes) but turned out they only gave me the first volume. They refused to look for the rest! Well, reading the first volume is enough to convince me that it's a good story. I wonder where I can get the rest of the manga? Better, the anime.

Gundam Seed? I'll tell you about it later, okay. I really got to go now.

[Teahouse Keeper]

Hahaha...my problem is that I'm too optimistic to be tragic, although I try my best to think tragically for my stories Another difficulty is thinking up bad guys. I can't seem to think wickedly enough, even though I really want to

Yeah, I prefer happy endings too! But tragic stories are great too because they make me think a lot...about the issues involved and how the tragedy could've been avoided

Oohh...the service at your rental shop is not good! Strange...not available for rent anymore??! And only 1 little volume??

Last night, I popped by my rental shop and discovered they had 18 volumes of the manga!! Yeah, in Chinese.

Ah. It should be possible to get the manga online. I'll try searching for you. As for the anime, you've to download Bittorrent first (if you haven't got it) before downloading the anime from boxtorrents.com. There may be other sites where you can download the anime...

There's a great tutorial about using Bittorrent but the link doesn't come out ok here. So, I'm emailing the link to you

[pippichan]

Hey, thanks for the link, teahouse keeper. I'll check it later. But I'm not sure my poor computer can be used to download anime.

Yeah, that's why I said the rental shop sucks! ;D But it's okay. I'll try to find the manga elsewhere.

As I promised, I'll tell you about Gundam Seed. The war in Gundam Seed is the war between Naturals (ordinary humans) with Coordinators (humans with extraordinary abilities as the result of genetic change). Naturals are envious of Coordinators who are better and smarter and practically dominate trade, economy and employment so that they randomly harrash even kill Coordinators who come to earth. The Natural's hatred and 'sweeping' action make Coordinators form their own nations which are located in several Plants (Space Colonies).

Kira Yamato and Athrun Zala are best friends since they were little and went to the same school in moon. Both of them are Coordinators but it's said that Kira is included in Coordinatior first generation because his parents are Naturals. Athrun, being a son of Patrick Zala - the leader of ZAFT - joins the military while Kira continues his study in Heliopolis.

Heliopolis should be a neutral plant but there's a suspicion that Earth Alliance secretly makes Heliopolis as the base for their new weapons development. So, ZAFT attacks Heliopolis in order to prove it. In the middle of chaos, Kira accidentally finds the place where Gundams are stored and bumps into Athrun who's about to steal Aegies Gundam. The three other Gundams - Duel Gundam, Buster Gundam and Blitz Gundam - have been taken by other ZAFT soldier.

In short, Kira becomes the pilot of Strike Gundam (the only Gundam left in Earth Alliance's possession) and boards Archangel together with his Natural friends and the Heliopolis refugees. Being a Coordinator among Earth Alliance soldiers really puts Kira in uneased position for he's always under suspicion. Worse, he has to fight against Athrun.

Athrun tries to persuade Kira to change side but Kira tells him that he doesn't fight for Earth Alliance's sake. He fights to protect his dear friends in Archangel. Little by little the sense of friendship between them are fading away. But, is fightning really the answer?

Because you kill, you get killed. And because you're killed, someone else kills. How can war end?

Hm.... I've been thinking about the right solution. How about mass brainwash? ;D

Oh, just curious, if you were in Kira and Athrun's position or Kamui and Fuuma's, what would you do?

[Teahouse Keeper]

Oh hey...the Naturals and Coordinators sound like the Blondies (genetically engineered elites) and Mongrels (natural humans who are considered outcasts) in the anime called Ai no Kusabi.

Thanks for explaining Gundam Seed! Yeah, it's very nice!

What are Athrun's reasons for not joining Kira?

Heeheehee! Mass brainwash! Yeah, that should work

Mm...it's tough fighting a friend. I suppose there will come a time when they'll have to kill each other? It then depends on how strong their friendship is. Which is more important to them--the mission or the friendship. They'll have to decide.

First of all, the fight between ZAFT and Earth Alliance is a political thing. Being the son of ZAFT's leader doesn't mean Athrun should take ZAFT's side. I think Kira is right. It's not about the Earth Alliance, ZAFT or the war. It's about protecting the people you care about.

If I am Athrun and will not join Kira, then the least I can do is try not to kill him If I am Kira, I will try not to get in Athrun's way, but I will not hate him for not joining me. If Athrun tries to kill my friends, I will stop him, although I won't kill him. Stopping him includes shooting non-vital areas of his body if necessary Of course, Athrun can do the same to me. We'll just try not to kill each other

As for Kamui and Fuuma, it's more difficult because it's not something they can choose. It's a magical thing. When either of them chooses the good side, the other one will suddenly transform into the bad guy and join the bad side--all memories of friendship will automatically be erased/forgotten. Like brainwash. Only the good guy will remember their friendship and the good times.

I don't think things can be changed from Fuuma's side because everything is out of his control. He can't stop himself from doing the things he does. He doesn't even remember who he used to be anymore. Kamui might be able to change the situation around, but things are also out of his control and he can't stop Fuuma.

I guess for Kamui, there is no choice but to kill Fuuma who is no longer himself.

But if I were Kamui, I might find a way to bring Fuuma's memory back. If that's not possible, then I will find some way of capturing and keeping him...until I find a way to return him to his old self. And if he returns to his old self, I won't tell him what he did because it's better he doesn't know. Besides, he wasn't himself when he did those things, so what's the point of hurting him by telling?

[pippichan]

I think the reason why Athrun joins ZAFT is the same with every other Coordinator's reason. Because Natural hates them so they hate Natural too.

Hm... if I were Kira, I wouldn't be fooled by Fllay's sweet craps and got on the refugee shuttle to ORB when there's chance to leave Archangel. Thing is, Kira fails to save Fllay's father and she's so mad at him because of that. Her hatred for Coordinators get worse. And when she learns that Kira's opponent is Athrun, his best friend, she comes up with a cruel idea. She refuses to leave Archangel - that makes the other Heliopolis students stay and makes Kira stay too. Fllay becomes very, very nice to Kira just to make sure the poor boy willing to protect Archangel everytime ZAFT attacks. Her hidden intention is for Kira to terminate all Coordinators, even his own best friend. That's her revenge to Kira, I guess.

If I were Athrun, I wouldn't join ZAFT in the first place.

For Kamui and Fuuma, yeah it's difficult. Hey, I've found X manga up till volume 14. You said there're 18 volumes, right? So, I should hunt for the remain 4. Maa, daijoubu! If there's a will, there's a way!

[Teahouse Keeper]

Oh! So with Fllay between Athrun and Kira, it becomes more complicated! Whoa, this Fllay is really quite bad, using Kira against his friend!

Mm...so everyone just accepts the hatred between the Naturals and Coordinators. It's too bad Athrun feels the same way.

Ooh..! You found the manga volumes all the way to 14? How did you manage that when the shop is so hopeless? Where did you find the volumes?? Yeah, I saw 18 volumes at my rental shop. I'm not sure if that's the complete set but I think it is.

[pippichan]

Hahaha!!! It's M-A-G-I-C!

Yeah, Fllay is really mean! I wish I could get into the anime and punch her! Hah, that'd make me happy!

It's too bad, really, but don't you think it's human nature? When you're hated by someone, naturally, instinctively you hate him in return. It can't be helped, I guess. Unless you're somekind of saint. And it's common thing too that people act cruel to those who's different. Why? I don't know. Maybe because they feel insecured or threatened by the difference. Why again? No idea. I never make fuss about people's difference.

Aaah, as long as there's social jealousy, there's hatred and conflict.

Eh, Teahouse keeper, I know that X Japan sang for X OST. But is their song 'Longing-Togireta Melody' included? Saddest song I've ever heard. Prisoned in the loved one's memory and can't - won't, in fact - to move on. Somehow I feel it suits Kamui.

[Teahouse Keeper]

Yeah, X-Japan sang the opening (exDream) and ending (Forever Love) theme songs for X. But I don't know whether "Longing-Togireta Melody" is in the OST. I looked around online but couldn't find any information on it. The song is in the album Dahlia but I think it's not in the anime.

Also, I wanted to hear it, but couldn't find a sample/download, although the lyrics were easy to find. If you know where I can listen to the song, it'd be great!!

From what I read, it seems X-Japan has already broken up Oh yeah, I saw your post in AnimeNation forum!

Personally, I like "Forever Love". Very memorable and sad, although I don't know the lyrics.

Yeah, I guess humans are cruel to other humans who are different. This is shown even in anime such as Naruto. Somehow, people are either afraid, jealous or want to feel superior to others.

But I don't think that it should be a natural consequence that I should hate someone just because he/she hates me. It's true that the Naturals have been fighting the Coordinators but I think Athrun shouldn't just accept that hatred. After all, he has no personal grudge against the Naturals and his best friend Kira is also a Natural. Instead, I think being the son of ZAFT's leader, he should secretly work towards establishing a peaceful future between these 2 groups.

Mm...many years ago, there was someone who seemed to hate me no matter what I did. I couldn't understand why and felt more puzzled than offended. We didn't even know each other personally!

I just assumed that the person had some private problems/difficulties. I'm no saint, but I really felt no hatred for this person even though it was obvious the person hated me. I didn't fight back either because I kind of pitied the poor fellow The poor fellow must be having some really tough problems.

[pippichan]

I'm not sure if you can hear 'Longing' in online jpop radio. But if you wanna try, here's the address www.jpopmusic.com/jpopradio/
Ah, there's TM Revolution, too there. I like their songs for Gundam Seed OST - Invoke and Meteor.

Correction, Kira is Coordinator but both of his parents are Naturals. Yeah, I know what you mean but don't forget that there's this feeling of solidarity. Even though Athrun doesn't suffer from Natural's harrasment personally, he also feels the hurt because he's Coordinator too. However, I get hint that in the middle of the story, somehow Athrun changes his mind. How is it exactly I can't tell you now because I'm still stuck in the same old Gundam Seed volume 14.

Oh, how could someone hate you, teahouse keeper? Yeah, that fellow must be 'twisted' or something. ;D Hm... it seems to me that humans can be irrasional sometimes. How could you hate someone you don't even know? Is it like hate at first sight? But for me, if I hate someone, there's gotta be a very reasonable background to that.

My post in AN? What post? Ah, the saddest song you've ever heard!?

[Teahouse Keeper]

Oh, thanks for the link Pippichan! Tried using it but couldn't find the song. How do you use the thing? It seems very inconvenient to use *frowns*

How come Kira is a Coordinator when his parents are Naturals? I thought Naturals will have Natural kids? Yeah, it's understandable that Athrun will side his own people. But wouldn't he be great if he could surpass his "group" mentality and think outside of what's been taken for granted? I mean, thinking of himself as an individual rather than as part of a group. If he could think outside of his group, he might be the one to bring peace to the future. He will lead others to a new beginning, a better future. He would be a hero.

Yeah, it was hate at first sight Maybe I reminded the person of someone...

What would make you hate a person, Pippichan? Is it the way he/she behaves or thinks?

Yeah, your post in AnimeNation...you said "Longing" was the saddest song you've ever heard. I was quite surprised to stumble upon it I said, "Eh?! Pippichan! How come she's there?"

[pippichan]

Hahaha... I don't. I just happened to find the site and told you the address. So, inconvenient, eh?

I think Kira had his genes changed when he was little. But I don't know the reason. That's why he's called Coordinator's first generation.

You know what? Looking back at our discussion about Gundam Seed, I can't help asking this question to myself: why am I defending Athrun??! I like Kira but here I'm defending Athrun while talking to you. And I think I'm still gonna do that.

The idealism you said is really good and I think I agree with you. But, being only one person against the whole group, do you think Athrun will stand a chance? And, can peace be brought by one man only? Can one man really make big difference? I think like everybody else - like Kira too - Athrun doesn't wanna fight. If only the story goes the different way. But he has to fight - not because he's ZAFT soldier - more to get back his right to live. Coordinator or not, he's also human and he's got right to live as much as Naturals do.

Ah, maybe it's hard for you to understand the complexity feeling of those who're considered 'different' in society. I know how Athrun must feel because I'm 'different' too. I know how hurt it feels to be mocked, called unpleasant names and treated unjust. It's not something that you can just forget when you want to. And if I was in Athrun's place, I think I'd fight too. The reason'd be much personal, though, because I'm tired of being looked down, mocked and harrassed. I'm a human too and deserved respect no matter how different I am from majority.

I'm just thinking maybe that's the true reason Athrun decides to join ZAFT and fights.

Hm... I think if I hate someone, it'll be because he/she has done something really really bad to me or to those who're really dear to me. In particular, I don't like people who backstab their own friend, it's like a betrayal which is I consider as the unforgiveable mistake of all.

Well, the fellow you mentioned, I really think he should get some help. You don't go hating people because they remind you of someone you hate. It's ridiculous! Anyway, it's his loss because he hates you. ;D

[Teahouse Keeper]

Oh!? You don't use the site?! And I thought you were using it! I was secretly thinking, "why did Pippichan give me such a bad site..." Yeah, I think there's something wrong with the site.

Mm...I haven't seen Gundam Seed and my arguments are based only on your description....so....

I see nothing wrong with defending Athrun even though you like Kira. But I believe that one man can bring about peace and make a difference. He won't be alone if he has friends helping him and I think Kira will help Athrun.

Why would Athrun be mocked and treated unjustly? I thought Coordinators are superior to Naturals?

Mm...yeah, betrayal of friendship and trust. That's a very good reason to hate someone....Has anything like that ever happened to you before?

Heeheehee...thanks for saying that it's the fellow's loss for hating me. I thought you'd be thinking, "oh, there must something wrong with the teahouse keeper..."

[pippichan]

Gotcha, teahouse keeper! Next time, I'll give you another bad site! ;D

Coordinators are superior but I think they're still somekind of 'minority' compared to Naturals. Imagine yourself as a Coordinator who happens to be in a cafe in earth - all you wanna do is just drinking a cup of coffee - when suddenly there are some Naturals jump on you, wanting to kill you just because you're a Coordinator. Isn't it unjust treatment? And yeah, they get mocked too. If you only see Fllay's reaction towards Coordinators and hear her hostile words, I think you'll understand.

Btw, I forgot to mention that Athrun's mom is killed in Bloody Valentine incident. That's when Naturals attack Unius 7, a Coordinator Farming Plant. So, basically, it's Naturals who start the war.

*chuckle* I just thought it's kinda funny - that's all. Not that I hate Athrun or something. It's just that first I thought Kira is the one with complicated personality. But now I realise that Athrun is much more complex. I don't know why I'm always attracted to complicated characters.

Though I'm still doubting that one man can make big difference, I know that Athrun will change his way of thinking later. I presume it's because of Cagalli, a Natural girl, whom he meets accidentally when his plane's crashed and so is her plane. They're stuck together in a deserted place for a night before each of their own forces are finally able to locate them.

Yup, it happens to me too many times. People who said that they're my friends turned out to be traitors and backstabbers. They just used me or wanted something from me. That's why it's hard for me to put faith in people. I like mankind. It's the people I can't stand (Gil Grissom - CSI)

Oh, teahouse keeper, why should I think there's something wrong with you? Though I'm curious about you, I never thought that way. Pretty strange, eh, for someone who more often think negative than think positive like me? ;D But it's the truth. I didn't say it just because I want you to like me or to act like a saint. Even though I haven't known you for long, I get the impression that you're a nice, kind, friendly and likeable person. If you don't believe me, ask another member. I bet they'll say the same.

[Teahouse Keeper]

Naughty Pippichan.....giving me bad sites and laughing about it.

Oh! So it's the Naturals who started the war and the Coordinators are the minority. I see. So the Naturals must be jealous of the genetically superior Coordinators. Mm...that explains your earlier comment that Athrun is only fighting for the right to exist/survive.

Hahaha...yeah, complicated characters are fun because they are more realistic, like us Even bad guys have their own reasons and problems and sometimes, they are quite sad and pitiful. I find bad guys more sexy and interesting than good guys

Cagalli and Athrun stuck together, alone for 1 night....Mmmm....sounds nice. Heeheehee....

Hahahha....you're very frank Yeah, it's strange that you would be thinking positive thoughts about me since you're usually the negative-thinking sort

Star Trek: Legacy #80
Riker talking to the android Data.

Riker: In all trust there is the possibility of betrayal. I'm not sure you were prepared for that.

Data: Were you prepared, sir?

Riker: I don't think anybody ever is.

Data: Hmm. Then it is better not to trust.

Riker: Without trust, there's no friendship, no closeness. None of the emotional bonds that make us who we are.

Data And yet you put yourself at risk.

Riker: Every single time.

Data: Perhaps I am fortunate, sir, to be spared the emotional consequences.

Riker: Perhaps.

[pippichan]

I agree that without feelings we can't be said 'truly' live. Crying, laughing and other feelings that we have are the proofs that we're alive. And yes, without trust there won't be friendship and closeness. But in my case, I never give 100% trust to others. That way, it won't be so painful (though it'll still be painful but not so bad) when they betray me.

However, there's always an exception. And I can't explain why I feel comfortable with a particular someone than others. Ah, like I said in my fanfic: It's hard just to define my own emotions.

[Teahouse Keeper]

Yeah, Pippichan, it's safer to keep some part of yourself to yourself in case.... That's supposed to be the smart way of living, although I'm not 100% sure.

Eh? What exception? What particular someone?

So how many % of trust do you usually give out? Oh hey, are you still playing the Neclord game?

[pippichan]

50, 70, it's different for each person. Sometimes when I met someone who can understands me and doesn't have any intention to judge me, I find myself giving him/her 90% trust. It's not something that I can control or manage. It just happens that way.

Hm... right now I'm taking a break from playing any game. It's my bad habit, once I play, I forget everything; time, eat, sleep. While in the morning I have to work. And as the result, I get sick. So, I'll play again when I have enough free time.

[Teahouse Keeper]

Ok....how many % trust have I got with you?? Is it 0.000009%?

Ah-ha....so you're one of those game addicts who play and play and forget to live. If you're living with your family, do your folks remind you to eat and sleep when you're playing non-stop?

[pippichan]

Hahaha!! How about totally ZERO %?! Ah, it's secret! Won't tell you so that you'll keep guessing! ;D

Why should they bother to remind me to eat or sleep?! It'll be better for them if I just die. *roll eyes* No, I have to take care of myself on my own if I wanna survive - it's been like that since years, years ago! Perfect family, eh?

[Teahouse Keeper]

EH?! Totally ZERO trust in me? Mmmm....it's been so long since you said that and.....

Ah. You're always keeping me guessing. Hmpf.

Do you know there's Suikoden III English manga? There's Suikoden III? Wonder what's it about.